INTERVIEW: Gerry Paul and Bianca Bailey (CubaDupa)
Bonnie: Hi guys, welcome back to this week’s Something Something interview, with me today I’ve got Gerry Paul the director of Cuba Dupa and Bianca Bailey, festival coordinator and also member of Wiri Donna. Thanks for joining us today guys!
Gerry: Great to be here!
Bonnie: How’s this year been so far?
Gerry: It’s been epic. I mean, for the last couple of years Cuba Dupa has sorta been derailed, two years ago by the awful tragedies in Christchurch - after the mosque shootings the whole country went into a national high security alert so we had to go off the street and into venues, which was also cool but you know, not a street festival. And then last year of course Covid, so, we were just so amped and nervous about getting it back on the street. And also the public were just like, it was the most anticipated festival in years, you know, so the fact that we got it across the line, it was a raging success. We had just, you know, so many people on site. Police estimated that on the Saturday there was over 120 thousand people and probably 40 or 50 thousand people on the Sunday. And the spirit of everyone there was just incredible so we’re just over the moon. Bianca?
Bianca: Yeah, no it was definitely pretty cool, I think I was pretty fresh to the Cuba Dupa team last year when we unfortunately had to cancel so for me is was just a massive highlight to actually be able to see the project through, and to have the Cuba Dupa creativity and kaupapa just flowing through the streets was a really amazing thing.
Bonnie: What were some highlights of the festival? Did you have any favourite parts of this year’s in particular? Like you said there was a big anticipation, that was a highlight in itself that it could actually go on.
Gerry: Something Something club! Yeah! That Massey CoCA stage, that was awesome and it really developed this year as well as having a strong programme. Also the students from the design school, like, making the beautiful stage installations, and the installations and decor around the park, it just really came together beautifully, you know. Some other highlights for me, one Cubasonic, which was the huge project we had over 200 musicians between Laundry Bar and the bucket fountain all the way down the street, with an overhead sound system with 52 speakers all with individual outputs so the sound was being moved up and down the street, and then 18 different groups performing. And it didn’t happen on the Saturday which was a disappointment but we finally got it up and running on the Sunday. And just the way it brought everyone together was just huge, you know. Um, JessB’s performance on the Saturday night, that was just a rager, you know. Troy Kingi was fantastic. A lot of the street theatre activities, we had a guy Conrad Coombe, he was Garden Friends, so he was a garden gnome riding a giant rooster, called Rachel, and just all these little, kind of, incidental things that people would experience between stages. The Air Between Us was another one, which was Ghuznee Street where we’re now, we had a high wire over the street and there was an aerial dance performance from Rodney Bell and Chloe Loftus. It was called The Air Between Us, and Rodney was suspended above the street in his wheelchair with Chloe interacting, yeah, so it was just fantastic. I could literally talk all day about the highlights, there are a few from me. Bianca?
Bianca: I think my favourite part is all of the external stages, it’s a really great part of us to engage with the local community and have different communities putting on different events. I particularly love the Garage Project wild workshops stage, at which we had Gussy Larkin programming an entirely female fronted and non-binary programme, um, that was something that was really special to see, really awesome to manage to get to be a part of as well. Valhalla was awesome! Yeah, so many different communities, just being able to pull them in. We’re sitting where our summer HQ was, um, which was also another really great thing. Yeah!
Bonnie: Oh, awesome. I think it’s like, the versatility at Cuba Dupa that people really love there most, for me anyway, you never know what you’re gonna get. It’s awesome. Alright, we sort of talked a bit about it but I think I’ll just ask, like, how Covid has affected both of your work. Has it had a big affect?
Gerry: I mean, it was pretty devastating last year to have to cancel the festival two weeks out, but the rest of the world was going through the same thing, so you know, there was quite a bit of solidarity, you know, people going through the same thing. I guess, being the only country in the world that could actually deliver a festival of this scale, I mean, afterwards the media were reporting Cuba Dupa’s most likely the biggest festival in the world over the last year, you know. So actually, while it’s affected it, we’re incredibly lucky, you know, and we’re very proud of that but we also feel very privileged, you know, I’ve been involved with Zoom conferences, and you know, panel discussions, with the people from the New Orleans Jazz Festival, the director there, Woodford Folk Festival, FOMO in Tasmania - FOMO or Mofo? Ah, Dark Mofo, Mofo! Yes, you know. But, you know, none of these people could go ahead, so just feeling so lucky. But it was a tough year, ‘cause there was a certain amount of uncertainty. “Certain amount of uncertainty”, sounds like a Modest Mouse lyric. I have to write that one down aye? But yeah, we didn’t actually know until right before the festival that we were gong to be able to go ahead or not, but we had to just keep on going as if we were, and if we were derailed for some reason we’d address that and we’d pivot. Last year after we were cancelled during lockdown, we got chatting to Kirsten from the Orchestra Wellington, and she said, “any idea what I could do with 80 classical musicians?” and we said yeah, Classical on Cuba, so we ended up putting on another festival, and we’re doing that again this year, so out of these cancellations and changes of plan always come new things as well. Bianca, you? Covid?
Bianca: Yeah I think the biggest thing is just learning how to adapt, I suppose we’ve all done it and we’ve all sorta been through it on the other side. Putting crisis comms and how to cancel a festival, the amount of work that goes into actually, un-producing an event was huge, but was really awesome to be able to come out of that with, sort of, something to give back at the end of that despite the fact that Cuba Dupa didn’t happen.
Bonnie: Yeah, did it mean that you could sort of, like, recycle what you’d prepared for and that was a good amount of preparation for this year’s, after last year being cancelled?
Bianca: Yeah, I think, it meant sort of in some regards we were ahead of the game in terms of this year because our priority was sort of trying to re-programme and re-book all of the artists that weren’t able to get down for 2020, and sort of providing them some assurance, being like yeah I know this didn’t happen, but we’re gonna try our best to make sure we do get you all back down here.
Gerry: Yeah there was that, there was also different, like, situation changes, so we had no international artists this year. So, you know, that was sad but at the same time what a programme we put together just with New Zealand artists.
Bonnie: It gave them a great platform.
Gerry: Yeah it did give them a great platform, and also we were able to find some international artists based here that we’d never known existed before. So like, Chantal Claret played on the Massey stage, she’s an amazing American songwriter that had never done a performance here. Of course there was Frank Monet, a French artist, he’s like a famous songwriter in France, he’d never done a performance here before. So that was really great, you know, any challenge provides an opportunity. Yeah, I think there was something else I was going to say there but it’s just slipped my mind. That’s all good. There were definitely new opportunities, and because we had, as Bianca said - oh yeah that’s what I was gonna say - because of Covid actually certain things, like Marcarto which is our festival management software system, that I probably told Isaac about a couple of years ago in class and showed to them, that fell over because they went out of business ‘cause no festivals were happening, so we had other challenges like that. We needed to come up with a new way of managing all of our information. So Bianca spent a few weeks researching different options, and found something called Airtable, which is, for all you budding producers and programers and music industry people, it’s like a supercharged spreadsheet. Bianca was able to kinda conform and put together a system which allows us to do contracting, vendors, all our marketing material, that feeds the back end of the website with an API, so yeah, all of that was a great opportunity too.
Bonnie: Bianca, how did you come to work with Gerry at Cuba Dupa? What’s your history with the festival?
Bianca: So I actually started in February last year thanks to the New Zealand Music Commission, their internship roles that they do. Every year they sort of, work with a whole bunch of different host organisations to put young people and people wanting experience in different places, connecting them into the right places, so I applied and got on through that. Spent a short period of time as the artist liaison before I was the artist un-liasion, I suppose? Yeah, but then started working on Classical on Cuba as a sort of post-Covid recovery event, and then managed to stick around! And now I’m festival coordinator, so yeah, really awesome journey for me to be able to work through with an organisation from that internship level, and just sort of get really stuck into it, work on some really awesome things, Airtable was one of those projects of mine that I got to really sort of take under my wing and sort of, lead where that went, which was really cool.
Bonnie: Awesome. Do you wanna stay with the festival, work in the future and sort of work your way up into that?
Bianca: Yeah, I think that being a musician it’s always, when I was younger it’s like yes, you wanna work in the industry, and always never being really able to visualise that being a tangible thing that you can do, it’s sort of really hard to see a direct path for yourself as some who wants to work in the industry, it’s so much harder to be like, okay, take these steps and do this thing. It’s so much more unclear when you decide that you want to work in the music industry, and it’s just sort of gathering as many skills as possible and being able to run with them in whatever situation. But yeah, I just wanna, in the phase of learning more and wanting to do more work, but love working with festivals and particularly with Cuba Dupa the community aspect and the kaupapa behind it is something that I’m really proud of and loving doing.
Bonnie: How early on does preparation begin for Cuba Dupa? Are you guys already thinking about next year? Is it like a full time thing throughout the year?
Gerry: Yeah it is like, some of the projects we’re working on for two years, like Cubasonic the big project we did this year we’d been working on for three years. Of course next year now that the Australasian bubble is open again there’s several of the bands that we already kinda paid deposits for, for last year that we had to cancel, so now it’s likely that we’ll be able to get them back next year. So, we’ll start coordinating with them now. You know, we’re starting to debrief with people, working through that, seeing what worked, what didn’t work from last time, starting to look at major missions again. We’re also juggling Classical on Cuba, and Face to face, which is another collaboration with all the dealer art galleries in Wellington, which we’re putting music for small little, kind of intimate concerts, that’s at the end of May. So yeah, there’s loads going on, but I think we’ll open our expressions of interest next month, to start getting bands applying. Bianca’s doing a session tomorrow night with the music managers’ forum where she’s doing speed networking, with like, 20 people tomorrow? Yeah, yeah. So we’re starting that process now, we’re really up for ambitious ideas and people coming to us with them.
Bonnie: I’m a member of the music managers’ forum but I think I missed the date by one day to go to that, I wanted to go to that but I missed the date!
Bianca: Oh no!
Bonnie: So you’re like, are you running it or?
Bianca: No no no, so I’m going in representing Cuba Dupa at this speed networking.
Bonnie: Oh, that’s great. So cool, yeah. It’s not what you know it’s who you know right?
Gerry: Yeah yeah!
Bonnie: What is Cuba Dupa’s point of difference? How does it compare to other festivals in New Zealand?
Gerry: Well, I guess in New Zealand, the first thing is we're a free and open access street festival, so it's non-ticketed. So there's a really low barrier to entry for that, for the audience and the punter, which is fantastic. And I guess the next thing for me when I first started working at the festival on the first year, I was promoting one of the bands that was playing at Cuba Dupa and I put on an extra couple of shows at San Fran. It was all that really interesting street theatre and interactions that you'd have between stages. I think I mentioned before about the rooster. We also had the Cuba chapel where they're doing weddings and funerals. So you could have a faux wedding. We actually had a real wedding there as well, where you could lie in a coffin and be at your own funeral and your friends could talk about you. There was the ‘Ping Pong Party People’, which was like a rave ping pong competition. There was, again, the aerial performance, circus performances, lots of popup dance performances. So all of these interactions you have when you're walking through the street. Another thing is the mass music concept. So over the last five years, we've grown this idea of mass music. The first year we started off doing the ‘Battle of the Bones’. We had 76 trombonists that were parading half classical from the lower end of Cuba street and half were jazz from the upper end. And they met in the middle and had this big riff off. Next year we had ‘Battle of the Saxes’ where we had over 50 saxophonists. The next year we had ‘Blowing Your Own Trumpet’ where we had like 56 trumpeters, who all went around the site and did these popup things. And this year we had ‘Cuba Tuba’, so you know, this idea of mass music and that is sort of how ‘Cuba Tuba’ sort of eventuated. The commissions that we do, people come to us with an idea and then we sort of help facilitate that, you know, just to see it delivered. There's also the Kaupapa of celebrating the street. So we don't allow any stalls from outside the street to come in and put on- you actually have to have a business on the street. So it's very much a celebration of the businesses that exist in Cuba street and the communities that exist here in Wellington.
Another huge thing which I reckon sets Cuba Dupa apart from other festivals in Wellington is the audience participation. So many people came in costume this year and it was actually quite hard to tell who was a performer and who was in the audience. I think that blurring the line of the audience and performer really encourages people. And again, you know, it’s different than the sevens where you might get 10 people come dressed as Superman, it's actually a celebration of individuality. I felt this year that people felt really secure and comfortable in expressing themselves and what way they wanted. And that was something that made me really proud to be a Wellingtonian and that people could come out. I think we can actually change the culture through festivals like Cuba Dupa.
Bonnie: Yeah, I think it feels safe to be who you want to be, especially at Cuba Dupa, it’s definitely a celebration of that. When I was there I could see that. It’s awesome.
Gerry, could we get a brief career outline?
Gerry: A bit like Bianca was saying before, when you're a young musician or in the industry, it's very hard to see how you can actually see a pathway in a career. I actually moved to Ireland when I was 18, cause I was very much into Irish folk music and I never thought I'd do it for a living, you know? And then I got into bands and before I knew it I was actually making a living just from doing gigs, kind of fell into it. And I was really lucky to spend it with another guy from Wellington, Andy Laking- an awesome Double Bassist, and three musician from Ireland.
We ended up touring the world for 12 years- we played in over 30 countries and did about 1500 gigs together over that period. We played in the Sydney opera house and did about 500 festivals around the world. So that was like my life just bouncing from festival to festival.
It was like my happy place. So I think when I moved back here, I felt quite burnt out from touring. I overindulged for 12 years and just like, couldn't face another airport for a while or a tour bus. I was like, literally burnt out from it. But I didn't want to be apart from that industry. And that’s when Drew gave me my first opportunity at Cuba Dupa. And then I did a couple of random things like, all my mates back here were having kids, and so I let used to write them songs. So I ended up doing a kid's album. And then through that, I won the John Lennon song writing competition in America. And then people heard the song and said, “Oh, you should make a book out of that”. So I self-published a book, and then it was selected by the New Zealand book council to go over to Frankfurt, to the book fair. So went and did that. And then I was a music producer, so I produced a lot of albums- mostly in Ireland and the States. But over here I produced Mel Parsons, ‘Drylands’, which was a silver scroll finalist. And Frank Burkett Band- I produced his album, which won the Tui for ‘Best Folk Album’. The Nukes- I produced their album. I worked with Trinity roots and I brought them together for an Irish/Maori collaboration. We travelled over to Scotland and represented New Zealand at that. And then a random one, like we have New Zealand music month, when I was in Ireland, I became musical director of their national music week. And I was on a train, which went around Ireland and we picked up 50 different groups and rehearsed with them on the train. The rest of the band, the house band, were all in Van Morrison's band, so they're like my hero musicians- and me getting to play with them, let alone being musical director. And on the train, I ended up playing ‘Hank the Wrestling Shark’ one day, which was my kid's song. And I got chatting to a TV producer and then through that, I ended up writing a TV show and becoming a TV presenter for a couple of years. So that was pretty random. And then I guess I was always self-managing bands and ended up being the agent often, you know. So the first tour we did of the States with the old band ‘Grata’, I ended up booking the tour and doing that. So I kind of learnt the ropes doing that. And more recently it's just been work as festival director or an agent. You end up doing all sorts of this industry and you really need to wear a lot of hats in a small country like Aotearoa. You never know when you have a conversation with someone where it's going to take you and that's quite interesting, I think because you end up being into all sorts of weird and wonderful scenarios. So two years ago I took over festival director for Cuba Dupa and that's been coming from the music producer to that obviously a lot of responsibility. You've got all these things, like you never thought you'd be dealing with like the security of 120,000 people on site, the health and safety of those people and all these other things, but we've got a great team that helped facilitate it all.
Bonnie: Wow I’m blown away, that’s so cool. What’s the coolest country you’ve played in?
Gerry: That's a hard question. I love playing in Japan and we had to play in these little jazz clubs. Like there might be two or 300 people, but dozens of people afterwards would give you presents after the gig. So they've come along with presents and they're just like such an appreciative, generous audience. The hospitality and the food was just amazing. I love playing in Ireland, you know, the crowds are like pretty dynamic. We got around about 42 States in America and weirdly, like Arkansas, I remember doing an amazing gig one time. To be honest, every place is kind of awesome when you're getting to play there. You know, it's such a wonderful way of experiencing a new place. One other gigs sticks out in Salzburg, in Austria. I remember doing a gig there to 50 people and an underground club and it was so hot and sweaty and just like just the vibe in the room was just magic. You know? It was amazing.
Bonnie: That’s awesome. Alright, who would be your favourite artist or band you've worked with or played with?
Gerry: There's a guy called Damien Dempsey, who is an Irish folk singer and he's the most passionate singer that I've ever worked with. I've been really lucky to have played with him once with a whole orchestra behind us and other times in clubs. Just the conviction with how and what he sings about just blows me away. It makes me emotional and brings me to tears every time I play with him.
Bonnie: That’s great. What is both of your favourite things about Wellington?
Bianca: It’s very hard to choose. I think that there’s a lot of people here, a lot of creatives that love to support other creatives. I think that's the best thing. Definitely. I think, compared to living in Auckland, I find that Wellington sort of breeds creativity a lot more. There’s a lot of really special things about them, but I think you have to do a little bit of digging to find them. It's pretty awesome once you find those places. Yeah.
Gerry: Cupa Dupa. I may be biased, but Cuba Dupa and the spear fishing, randomly. I'm like a real obsessive spear fishermen. I go out every weekend and get in the water and I just love the sea life. There’s dolphins, sometimes whales, we've got sea horses and seals and just all these beautiful fish and crayfish. We're so lucky to live in a capital city with all this beautiful outdoors.
Bonnie: Where do you do it?
Gerry: Just around the South coasts, over the other side of the Pink Arrow, Makara Coast, Kapiti Island. The outdoors in Wellington are just spectacular, we're so lucky.
Bonnie: That’s good to have a different hobby, like completely different from your work. Must be refreshing. Alright. Important question- what’s your coffee order?
Gerry: It's a hard one to get right. So I say, “Good morning. Can I please have a triple shot, flat white with one sugar, three quarters full?”. You know, so it's just like extra shot, three quarters full, one sugar, but I hate it too milky. And I like it with a good bit of grunt and sometimes it can be hard to remember all three things, but try it. It's an awesome coffee. And Bianca is a long black. Just makes it easy.
Bonnie: Well one of you has to have the easy coffee order, you can’t both have a complicated one! The poor barista!
Gerry: Well one time I was playing in a band and we were in Nashville, Tennessee, and we were making an album and the young guy in the band, I confused him because I wanted a quadruple shot that day. So I said, “two extra shots”, he says, “so how many shots?” and I said “four shots”. So he ended up going in and ordering a large coffee with four extra shots. So it ended up having seven shots of coffee in it. And I was recording that day and I was absolutely buzzing. You know, I was like speeding up all the songs and everything, and it was a Starbucks. It wasn't great. But anyway, it did the job.
Bonnie: Oh that’s so funny, that's so good. Alright, just wrapping up now. Do you have any advice for young people entering the music industry or wanting to get into festival work or just the industry in general?
Gerry: I think there’s a couple of things. One is to talk to as many people and make as many contacts as you can, but in a genuine way. I think if you're generally a person who's interested in people, opportunities will open for you. And sometimes you have to offer and do things to get in the door. You know, if it’s “hey, you need a hand volunteering?” or offering a hand doing something else. Actually, the first time Bianca contacted us was when I put up a post on social media saying, “Hey, need to borrow a drum kit for a Radioactive interview” and Bianca said, “Oh yeah, I'll drop mine down to you guys”. You know? So then when we got her application for an internship, I was like, “Oh yeah, I know I remember this name”, so you never know, people who you meet, or opportunities where they're going to lead to, you know? Yeah. So I think that, and also just make yourself as versatile as possible. You don't want to compromise on getting good at things, but at the same time, pick up as many skills as you can because you never know what area you're going to end up working in. And even being able to self-manage yourself or whether you’re doing it for someone else, it's really good to have all these extra skills. And if you're making music as your thing, just keep on making the best music you can, be as creative as you can, make it your job to be creative. Be real disciplined about it, you know? And, yeah, just always looking for opportunities I think.
Bianca: Collect as many skills as possible I think. Always say yes to helping out at different opportunities. It's just a matter of being available and willing to put your brain on to different things. I think I'm very fresh, but that's my advice.
Bonnie: Any advice is good! Well thanks for joining us guys. It’s been a pleasure to talk with you both!
Gerry: Thanks Bonnie and Isaac! And thank you to the Something Something Club - looking forward to your programme next year at Cuba Dupa. And in the meantime, hit us up if you’ve got acts that you want to tell us about. We are always looking for new music to get our ears around!